The Penfolds chief winemaker talks about Grange, blending, terroir and not being fooled by fashion. By Dan Bignold of Drink Magazine Asia 11th February 2014.
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饮迷:奔富的风格是什么?

DRiNK: What is the Penfolds house style?

PG:有这样一个模板:生理成熟的葡萄;不过分成熟,酒精度不过高;中等甜度;还有陈化的倾向性。不仅葛兰许是这样,所有奔富红酒都是这样。这是一种深度的追求,也是一种风味上的追求。人们经常将奔富作为一个具有老世界感觉的新世界酒庄来看待。这意味着我们有老世界酒的深度和陈化,而其不同之处在于未陈年的酒口味也很适宜。所以,葛兰许和所有奔富的酒给了你既可以现在喝也可以放几年再喝的选择。

PG: It’s a template: physiologically ripe fruit; generosity of fruit, but not overly ripe, not overly alcoholic; sweet mid palate; and that propensity to age. That is the same for all Penfolds reds, not just Grange. It’s a structural pursuit; it’s also a flavour pursuit. Many people refer to Penfolds as being a new-world winery but with an old-world feel. And what they mean by that is the structure and the ageing of old-world wines, but why it’s different is because of its accessibility in youth. With Grange and all Penfolds you get the choice to drink now or drink later.

饮迷:葛兰许是如何制作的?

DRiNK: How do you make Grange?

PG:在制作葛兰许时,我们关注的是创造一种有口感个性的葡萄酒,而不是创造一个配方。与之相似的例子有香槟区库克酒庄:他们酿制的是一款能体现酒庄风格的酒,像是Clos du Mesnil blanc de blancs。他们会混酿各种年份酒,而多数时候他们会将各种葡萄品种混合在一起。奔富所做的也是一样:以葛兰许体现酒庄的标志性风格。但是没有两个葛兰许年份酒会有相同的味道,或是相同的陈化适饮期,因为作为原料的葡萄是在每年都在变化的气候条件下生长的。但是我们酿酒理念不会改变。

PG: In the case of Grange we are creating a wine made to the stylistic template of Grange. Not a formula. So in effect it’s a house style of Grange, made by Penfolds. Another example is the House of Krug in Champagne. Now, they will make a single vineyard expression – such as Clos de Mesnil blanc de blancs – or they will make a blend of vintages, a grande cuvee, or they will create a vintage, and most of the time they will blend grape varieties. At Penfolds we are doing the same sort of thing. We are creating a house style that is Grange, but no two vintages will taste the same or age the same, because the raw material grew up differently in the vineyard, as a grape, in different climactic circumstances each year. But the way we make the wine doesn’t change.

广泛的选择源自葡萄园。以马格尔庄园为例。需要花三天时间采摘。三块地的葡萄分开酿造葡萄酒。总共使用八个发酵池。经常会有两个发酵池的酒需要降级。但可能会有一个被升级用来酿造葛兰许。然后剩下的酒用于混酿单一葡萄园葡萄酒。被升级的葡萄酒就是够资格用于木桶陈化的。你首先需要获得适宜的颜色和风味,但不似波尔多酒,我们不保留葡萄皮——我们将葡萄皮去掉后再在调节过的新橡木桶中完成发酵。在此之后还是有可能做成140瓶酒。

The broad selection starts in the vineyard. Take the Magill Estate vineyard as an example. That is picked across three days. Three blocks will be made into wine separately. They will go into eight fermenters. Quite often two of those fermenters will be relegated. But one might be elevated, to go into selection for Grange. Then the remaining wine will be blended to produce a single vineyard expression. For the wine that is elevated, it is what deserves to finish its fermentation in barrel. You need to get that colour and flavour first, but unlike the wines of Bordeaux, we don’t keep the wines on skin – we take off the skins to complete their fermentation in seasoned new oak barrels. After that there might still be 140 wines.

然后我们又以十分不同的方式制作混酿。我们以盲选的方式选择成分酒,在盲品时没人知道所品尝酒的来历。我们通过气味和口味来决定每一款酒是否达到葛兰许的标准。这很简单,让你保持诚实。我们对葡萄园、葡萄种类或数量不知情。这剔除了两个方向的偏见,感情上的和财政上的。“如果葡萄都来自奔富自己的庄园而不是独立种植园,岂不是可以省去我们一大笔钱?”而感情上的偏见在于我们会想帮助那些独立种植者——那些共同合作和许多年的种植者。这就是为什么葛兰许的的产量每年会有变化,以及苏维翁葡萄的含量每年也有变化的原因。

We then put the blend together in a very different way. We select the wines blind. No one knows where they come from. We smell and taste them and decide if each one comes up to Grange standard or not. It’s very simple. It keeps you honest. We don’t know the vineyard or the variety or the volumes. It takes out two biases, emotive and financial. “Wouldn’t it save us a lot of money if the fruit only came from Penfolds vineyards, and not from independent growers?” And emotive because you want to help the independent vineyards – you’ve worked together with some of them for a long time. And that’s why the volumes of Grange vary from year to year, and why the percentage of cabernet varies from year to year.

于是我们接下来为葛兰许选酒,再为我们别的珍藏酒选酒——Bin 707,然后是圣亨利,然后是RWT——然后第二天我们为Bin 389选酒。389里还是有些最好的设拉子和苏维翁,只是没有用于葛兰许而已。这是一种层级式的选择方式,所以到了第五、六、七天我们可能就在为Koonunga Hill选酒了。这就是我们葡萄酒的生产过程。由于奔富现在是佐餐酒,我们以珍藏酒开始,葛兰许最先,然后是从上至下的金字塔配酒方式。越到下面选酒的基础越宽广。

So we then select wines for Grange, then our other reserve wines – Bin 707, then St Henri, then RWT – and then on day two we do Bin 389. That’s still some of the very best of shiraz and cabernet going into 389, it just didn’t make it into Grange. It’s a cascading selection, so by day five, six, and seven we might be looking at Koonunga Hill. And that’s the way the wines have evolved, by the way. It’s the modern era of Penfolds as table wine – we started with the reserve wines, Grange came first, and then it was a top-down approach. The base broadened over time.

偶尔,葛兰许每个年份的平均产量可以达到7-9千个9升桶。这比波尔多第一批葡萄的一半还要少。人们问为什么我们不增加产量。但我们的确做不到。也许我们可以在一段时间之内增加产量,躺在过去的荣耀上吃老本,但这不是我们的行事方式,所以我们不会这么做。

Incidentally, for Grange, the average volume is 7-9,000 9L cases per vintage. That is less than half the volume of a first growth from Bordeaux. People ask why we don’t increase it. But we can’t. We could do that for a while and live off past glories, but that’s not the way we do it. We won’t go there.

饮迷:你们所有的葡萄酒都是如此制作的吗?

DRiNK: Is it the same process for all wines?

PG:还是有些例外的。Bin 389是苏维翁-设拉子混酿,所以苏维翁的比例必须占到51%。而Koonunga Hill是设拉子-苏维翁混酿,所以设拉子比例为51%,但最多可以占到80%。所以每年的变化会很大,但是最重要是只要酒符合Bin 389或Koonunga Hill一贯的风格就可以了。

PG: Well, there are some specifics. So with Bin 389 it is a cabernet-shiraz blend, so it must be 51 per cent of cabernet in the blend. But Koonunga Hill is a shiraz-cabernet blend, so that must have at least 51 per cent shiraz. But it can have as much as 80 per cent shiraz. So there can be huge variation each year. The most important thing is just as long as it has that Bin 389 style, or the Koonunga Hill style.

饮迷:苏维翁为葛兰许带来什么?

DRiNK: What does cabernet bring to Grange?

PG:在挑选葡萄时和发酵结束时,成熟的苏维翁会显得十分深厚,因而与设拉子相似。所以你也真的不知道你在品尝哪种葡萄酒,而这也让你做出最直观的选择:不是依据葡萄的品种,而是根据哪种最符合葛兰许的风格。

PG: When we make the selection, of the physiologically correct grapes, and when we finish the ferments, some of the cabernets are muscular, dark and, in fact, they look a lot like shiraz. You really don’t know what you are tasting. And so those make the selection. You are not selecting that component because of the varietal, but because it is Grange-like.

退一步说,苏维翁为葛兰许带来更多的深度和复杂性,尽管可能通常需要多年才能显现出来。再退一步说,苏维翁带来了单宁,并在结构上使口味变得更紧凑一点。不仅仅是黑茶藨子或其他我们从苏维翁中得到的味道,而是设拉子在经年累月后所无法提供的颜色或个性。

But stepping back, what it does bring is some more variety to the mix, more complexities that oftentimes don’t unfurl or manifest themselves for many years. But stepping back again, it does offer tannins, and structurally binds up the palate a little. And it’s offering not just cassis, or other things we associate with cabernet, but characters or colour that maybe the shiraz is lacking in that given year. But the wine is not selected because it’s a cabernet.

饮迷:我们在《酒道酬心》品鉴会上品尝的年份酒有什么气候带来的不同?

DRiNK: What were some of the climactic differences between the vintages we tasted at the Rewards of Patience tasting?

PG:我们认为1996年是万事俱备的一年。我们能采摘到成熟得十分完美的葡萄,而酒精含量低。因此我们不需要做得太辛苦。而2008年我们有不少工作要做。1993年我们好像每天在厂房里工作30个小时似的。但1996年的感觉就是恰到好处,年份酒就该是那样的。但这又完全在于个人喜好。有的人喜欢1993年,因为感觉更像罗纳河风格。有的人喜欢2008年,因其更具年轻酒的活力。对有些人来说可能是个挑战,因为当时的酷热天气持续了16天。但结果是成就了一款经典的年份酒,相当出色,从丽莎•佩罗蒂-布朗那里得了一百分。

PG: We consider 1996 a year when all the stars aligned. We were able to pick perfect physiological fruit with slightly lower alcohol. We didn’t have to work too hard. In 2008 we had to work. In 1993 it felt like we were in the winery 30 hours a days. But 1996 just felt right, it was that sort of vintage. But it’s all about personal preference. Some people might like the 1993 because it’s more “Rhone-like”. Some people like the 2008 because they like the vivacity of youth. It could have been a challenging year for some people because there were 16 days of heatwave. But, as it turns out, it became a classic vintage. It’s done remarkably well. It got 100 points from Lisa Perrotti-Brown.

我们能够做到是因为我们拥有出色的资源。如果在巴罗萨地区是困难的一年,我们则可以去库纳瓦拉。但保持不变的是奔富的个性。2002年不是最凉爽的一年,但却是最寒冷的一年。2001年则度过了二十年代以来最炎热的夏天。奔富是如何应对的呢?我们四处采购。如果你能找到RWT设拉子葡萄酒,那么应该喝2002年的。本是温热气候的葡萄酒遇上了较凉爽的一年,这是精明的消费者所喜爱的。所以2002年我们为葛兰许从巴罗萨和麦克拉伦谷采酒。较热的年份我们会去南方的帕德萨维,罗布和库纳瓦拉。

We can do this because we have a remarkable resource. If it’s a difficult year in Barossa, we can go to Coonawarra. But underlying is always that house style. In 2002, it was not the coolest year, but it was one of the coldest. In 2001 we had our warmest summer since the 1920s. How does Penfolds react? We shop around. In many ways if you ever find a RWT shiraz, seek out 2002. It’s a warm climate wine in a cooler year. That’s often what the smart money looks for. So in 2002 for Grange we went to Barossa and Maclaren Vale. In hot years we will go south to Padthaway, Robe and Coonawarra.

饮迷:那么是不是可以说奔富的混酿能力比其风土条件更优呢?

DRiNK: Is it fair to characterise the Penfolds style as championing blending over terroir?

PG:你不可能取悦所有人,但我们尽量。我们生产三种酒——红葡萄酒、白葡萄酒和加强葡萄酒。如果我们只有在马格尔庄园的奔富葡萄园,我们每隔两句就会谈到风土。但现在我们有了那些美妙的选择,所以我们就尝试了许多种风格。欣赏音乐的时候,小提琴独奏和交响乐团哪个更好听?我们的目标在于提供选择。这是我们的工作中最重要的语汇之一。有时候单一葡萄园具有吸引力,而有时候则是整个乐团。

PG: You can’t be all things to all people – but we try. The three wine styles that we make – red, white and fortified – cover all of that. If we just had the original Penfolds vineyard, at Magill Estate, every second sentence would be terroir. But now we have that wonderful choice, so we dabble in a lot of styles. In music, a soloist playing as a virtuoso or a whole orchestra – which is best? The objective is to offer choice. That is the huge operative word here. Sometimes single vineyard appeals, sometimes the whole orchestra.

当然,在2013年时兴单一地区、单一葡萄园甚至单一地块。但是葛兰许不是这样的酒。某一年葛兰许可能含有89%的巴罗萨,9%采自克莱尔谷,而2%来自马格尔庄园用于平衡。当然,我们也有专注于单一葡萄园的葡萄酒。今年我们会发布我们170周年的纪念版葡萄酒Bin 170。这款酒我们之前只发布过一次,在1973年。这款酒不只是来自卡里姆纳的单一葡萄园这么简单,而是来自单一区块Block 3C。所以说我们也会做这样的酒,但那并不是葛兰许。

Of course, it’s fashionable in 2013 globally to go to regions, to go to vineyards, go to blocks. But that is not what Grange is all about. One year Grange might be 89 per cent Barossa, 9 per cent sourced from the Clare Valley, and the balance 2 per cent from Magill. Of course, we have other wines where we zoom in on the vineyard. We will have a commemorative wine Bin 170 coming out this year for our 170-year anniversary. We’ve only released a wine by that name once before, in 1973. For this wine, it’s not just a single vineyard wine from Kalimna, but from a single block – 3C. So we do that sort of thing as well. But that’s not Grange.

像葛兰许、707和圣亨利这样的酒,有些东西我们是宗教般的不可动摇的。我们会按照葛兰许的创立者马克思•舒伯特所立下的规矩做葛兰许。我们也做了许多具有现代风格的酒——RWT设拉子,具有单一地区,法国橡木陈化等等那些风格——但这不会影响我们像葛兰许这样的酒。这不是狂妄,而是忠于一款酒的本色。我相信在每个人都开始追捧新橡木桶的六十年代时圣亨利没有那么流行,但我们没有改变。这是澳大利亚设拉子葡萄酒最传统的风格。在老木桶里陈化,而不进行提取以提高酒精度。这是古老的风格,却永远不会过时。贝多芬、披头士会过时吗?你可以不喜欢他们,但他们会永远受到尊敬。谢天谢地,拉菲和拉图不是每年都改变。纽约时报的刊头从美国内战以来就没有改变过。这意味着不论是自我,还是最新的、最大的或者最好的都不能改变它。

There are religious things we can’t change like Grange, 707 and St Henri. We still make Grange to the template of Max Shubert, the original winemaker who created Grange. We have made more modern styles – RWT shiraz, which is single region, French oak matured, all of that – but without compromising our other wines such as Grange. It’s not arrogance. It’s a matter of being honourable to what this wine is. I am sure in the 1960s St Henri became less popular when everyone wanted new oak. But we didn’t change it. It’s the most old-fashioned style of shiraz in Australia. Matured in large old vats – “foudres” – and not extracted, not pumped up in alcohol. It is an old style, but it will never go out of fashion. Will Beethoven or the Beatles go out of fashion? You might not like them, but they will always be respected. Thank goodness that Latour and Lafite don’t change every year. The masthead of the New York Times hasn’t changed since the American Civil War. It means it can’t be affected by ego or what’s the latest or the biggest or the best.

所以我们也没有改变圣亨利,它依然不受橡木的影响。单宁仅仅来自葡萄皮和葡萄籽,在你的舌尖留下另一种冲击。单一评好的圣亨利年份酒和葛兰许一样持久。实际上1971年在世界上某些地方卖得和葛兰许一样贵,如果不说更贵的话。

So we haven’t changed St Henri either, it’s still unencumbered by oak. The tannins only come from skins and seeds of the grape. Attacks the mouth differently. But a good vintage of St Henri will last as long as Grange. In fact the 1971 St Henri in some parts of the world costs as much, if not more than the Grange.

饮迷:奔富有很强的创新传统,特别是三十和四十年代,这对澳大利亚葡萄酒产业所产生的深远影响直到今天依然存在。现在有哪些创新?

DRiNK: Penfolds has a strong heritage of innovation, especially in the 1930s and ‘40s, with winemaking developments that influenced the modern Australian industry right up to the present day. What innovations are taking place now?

PG:创新从未停止过。比如在珍藏系列中使用黑皮诺和桑娇维塞,以及酿造珍藏系列的方式。我在九十年代中期有了这个想法,精酿的葡萄酒,不用过滤和加工,使用一些在三十年代他们都叫不出名字的葡萄。但我们也会到未来,并带回来琼瑶浆和赛美蓉。Ampoule计划也非常令人印象深刻。我们在莫斯科Baccarat夜总会发布这款酒的时候获得了全世界的关注。Bin 620在上海华尔道夫的全球发布也是一样,而这款酒只做过两次,分别在1966年和2008年。或是我们刚发布的50年陈的茶色波特,装在漂亮的手工玻璃瓶里。加强葡萄酒是我们十九世纪五十年代的产品,但和现在并不一样。所以创新从未停止过。

PG: The innovation has never stopped. For example using pinot noir and sangiovese in our cellar reserve range, and the way the winemaking in that range works – I came up with that in the mid-90s, handcrafted wines that are unfined and unfiltered, with obscure grapes varieties they couldn’t even spell in the 1930s. But we have also gone back to the future, and brought back a gewurztraminer and a semillon. What’s also hugely impressive is the Ampoule project; that created worldwide news when we launched it at the Baccarat Club in Moscow. Or the arrival of Bin 620, with a global launch at the Waldorf Astoria in Shanghai. There were only ever two made, in 1966 and 2008. Or the 50-year-old tawny that we have just launched, in a beautiful handcrafted bottle. Fortified wine is was what we were doing in the 1850s, but not like this. So the innovation hasn’t stopped.

但在另一方面,人们又对过去的一切产生了狂热。所以也有满足这种需求的Bin酒项目。比如1962年的Bin 60A,澳大利亚最著名的酒,只有在2004年做过另一次。当时我们酿出了难以置信的好酒,我征求了业内资深人士的意见,而他们告诉我去做。我们已经有了葛兰许和707,所以这款酒不能影响到另外两款。葛兰许永远是第一位的。比如1990年我们做了很棒的Bin 90A和920。707和圣亨利也是相当好的酒。所以年份好的时候你可以做许多事情。

But in the other lane is a fervent respect for what has gone before. So there are these special bin projects. The 1962 Bin 60A, for example, the most famous wine in Australia – there was only one other made in 2004. We had an incredible wine and I called in the tribal elders, and they said go for it. We’d already made Grange and 707, so it’s got to be wine that won’t compromise those labels. Grange will always come first. In 1990, for example, we made a great Bin 90A and 920. The 707 and St Henri are also some of the best. So in a great year you can make lots of things.

不过要记住,我可以用美丽的辞藻为我们的酒做包装,但是酒是要喝一辈子的。所以我们要抢占新闻头条吗?不,我们要的是今后的170年。酒做的好当然可以卖得很好,但我们不能酒一旦做的糟糕带来的名誉损失。所以产量是依据年份变化的,特别是在年份不好的时候。

Remember, however, that we can package our wines with beautiful words. But these wines will follow you through to the grave. So a quick grab for headlines? No, sorry. We are thinking of the next 170 years. The good wines are good for business. But you can’t afford bad wines, which is why the volumes vary each year, especially in the bad years.